Pebble Minutes - 27 September 2008

The Public Bodies Liaison Committee for British Paganism

Pebble Minutes - 27 September 2008

Date: Saturday 27 September 2008
Location: Oxford
Time: 1.00pm

Present:

Dan Carpenter (Secretary)
Lee Davies (PM)
Jacq Dobson (DP)
Dragon (HFP)
Jeanette Ellis (TR)
Angela Grant (HAD)
Shaun Hayes (OBOD)
Gwen Hopkinson (DP)
Cassandra Latham (PF)
Mario Malo (observer)
Jon Randall (PN)
Emma Restall Orr (TDN)
Thorskegga Thorn (HFP)
Uzo (TR)
Belinda Winder (Chair)

Further Abbreviations Used Throughout:

CoBDO: Council of British Druid Orders
DP: Derbyshire Pagans
HAD: Honouring the Ancient Dead
HFP: Heathens for Progress
OBOD: Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids
PF: Pagan Federation
PN: Pagan Network
PM: Pentacle Media
TDN: The Druid Network
TR: The Ravens

MINUTES

Apologies for Absence
No apologies were received.
Pebble partnerships
CL informed the group about recent changes to the presidency of the PF, and that John Macintyre would be taking up the post of Acting President for a period of six months. BW suggested that the changes at the PF have resulted in a strong team there and that she was hoping to re-join the PF committee. As CL lives in Cornwall and has to travel a long way to attend Pebble meetings, it was BW's intention to attend the next meeting as PF representative rather CL, and thereby give up her role as independent Chair.
BW asked the group whether Steve Wilson would be willing to resume his role as Chair, but JR reported that he didn't think Steve would accept.
ERO suggested that any incoming Chair should be - and should be recognised as - completely non-partisan. She notified the group that she was withdrawing from Pebble as lately she didn't feel she had been contributing anything other than attending meetings. TDN would be nominating a new representative for the next meeting.
AG confirmed that she wished to continue attending meetings as a member of Honouring the Ancient Dead (HAD), which is not a partner organisation of Pebble. She would therefore be attending as a non-voting member. JR asked AG if she would accept the role of independent Chair. AG agreed and a vote was taken. The votes were unanimous that AG would take up the role of Chair following the meeting.
BW suggested that at future meetings, partner organisations should be limited to a maximum of two representatives - one voting member and one observer - and that observers should be prepared to be asked to sit elsewhere if the meeting should become too crowded. It was important for the other members to know which member was the voting member and which member was the observer. When booking a room for the next meeting, BW suggested the booker find out in advance how many people are going to attend. LD suggested that people post on the forum prior to the next meeting whether they are coming or not.
ACTION: All to post on the forum prior to the next meeting whether or not they plan to attend.
ERO notified the group that the Charnwood Order of Druids, which had been invited to send a representative to the meeting, in view of becoming a partner organisation, had not sent anyone. She asked if it was acceptable to extend the invitation to the next meeting. A vote was taken and unanimously passed.
BW addressed the group about how Pebble partner organisations interact with each other. She said that in the past, certain partner organisations had felt undermined by others. She reminded the group that Pebble had been set up to communicate and it was vitally important that partners consider carefully how they talk about each other's organisations. Although the representatives that attend Pebble meetings can't control what is said by their members, they can set a positive example.
Handfasting
BW informed the group that for a marriage ceremony to be legal in England it must be attached to a building. She had written to the General Register Office to petition for the legal recognition of Pagan handfastings and had received a reply saying that this was impossible, as handfastings 'always take place outdoors'. BW replied to inform them that this was not necessarily so, and asked for a meeting. She received a further reply retracting some of the statements made in the previous letter, but declining a meeting. BW was taking advice and trying again to organise a meeting. She had been talking to a woman who was trying to register a Wiccan temple. Ultimately however, she expressed a desire to get outdoor handfastings legally recognised.
JE said that there had been talk of registering people, rather than places, but at the moment you cannot be a 'floating' registrar in England, unlike in Scotland.
JR told the group that his handfasting had been legally recognised in England, because he had found a registrar who was willing to change certain words in the ceremony and allow 'poetry' that he and his wife had contributed. TT confirmed that some registrars will allow Pagan weddings because Paganism is not considered a 'proper' religion.
ERO suggested that DC put something on the website about the current situation in England.
ACTION: DC to populate the handfasting page of the website with information about the legalities surrounding handfasting in England.
JR said that the only part of the ceremony that must take place in the registered building is the signing of the register. To apply to register a building, it must be open to the public. JD added that the registrants must prove that have had a congregation there.
BW stated that she would continue to push for a face-to-face meeting to get these issues dealt with and would report back to the group.
Censorship
AG informed the group that she had received a complaint relating to a BBC news report that Birmingham City Council (BCC) was blocking members of staff from accessing Pagan and atheist websites. She emailed BCC for an explanation and received a reply that didn't make sense. AG therefore asked Bryn Colvin to test this out using a networked BCC computer. She had been able to access all the Pagan sites she needed to. AG also asked BCC to clarify their earlier email and they responded by saying the websites were not blocked.
LD suggested that sometimes when a new system is put in place it takes a while to iron out the creases and that any resulting blocks may have been unintentional. The first thing to do if you think you are being inappropriately blocked is to contact the employer or owner of the system.
ERO suggested that a statement could be put on the Pebble website that people could use in a letter to send to their councils if this sort of thing happens again.
ACTION: BW to produce a PDF document that people can use to demonstrate to councils and other bodies that Paganism is a valid religious path. BW to ask for feedback on forum before finalising copy. DC to publish final version on website.
JR said that from a programming point of view, there is coding that you can put in a website to say which sections of the site may have adult or otherwise inappropriate content, but that it is up to the web designers to sign up to the regulations.
CL told the group that she had received a similar complaint relating to libraries. JR suggested that the person in question should in the first instance write to the local council's library services department. ERO suggested that she email AG who would do this on her behalf.
TT wondered whether it might be worth having standard responses for the use of Pebble representatives, as well as the one published on the website for the public.
Organ donation
AG reminded the group that at the last meeting she had reported that there were attempts get the organ donation website to include information about Paganism. She had contacted a manager at the organisation and had been told that the information could be added next time the website was updated, but that there were no plans to update it.
AG had asked Pebble partners to send her information on organ donation from their traditions' points of view, and had only received a couple of responses. She suggested that Pagans' views on the topic tended to be split, with some animists against the idea of organ donation. SH also suggested that though some people would be willing to donate organs, they might not be willing to have other people's organs put in their own bodies.
BW pointed out that there seemed to be no common Pagan position on this topic and that it must be down to the individual. TT suggested that Pebble make a statement to this affect on the website and offer some examples of the differing views within Paganism.
SH informed the group that there was now a website where people could register as organ donors.
ACTION: Anyone with a viewpoint on organ donation to put anonymous explanations of their views on the forum for eventual publication on the Pebble website. DC to publish on the website, along with a statement that there is no single Pagan view and a link to organ donation website.
AG told the group that this wasn't to help people decide what to do if a person is unconscious, but just to help individuals decide, and to provide guidance to government.
Ministry of Defence
BW read out a letter to the group about a recent Ministry of Defence (MOD) diversity day in which Pagans took part. TT confirmed that the MOD Pagan Network run by Zin Walker is now representing employees of the armed forces as well as the civilian staff. BW said that the day was so successful that the MOD were thinking of holding another day, specifically for religion and belief.
TT suggested that if anyone had any Pagan contacts in the MOD, they should put them in contact with AG, who will contact Zin on their behalf.
Dragon told the group that if 400 Pagans are identified in the MOD (armed forces and civilian), they will create a post of Pagan chaplain. ERO suggested that a call be put on the website.
ACTION: DC to put out a call on the website for Pagan members of the MOD to get in contact via the contact form. All to check their own networks for possible contacts and forward to AG.
ERO said that she had received a query from Canada asking for guidance on what to do with dead Pagans in the field. Although there can be no simple answer to this, it would be good to be able to offer guidance on what kinds of things to consider in a time of crisis.
TT said that if Pebble could make some advances with the MOD in terms of recognising all forms of religion, then this could be rolled out to other government departments.
Police
JR reported how he had met with the Metropolitan Police (Met) faith and diversity unit and had discussions with police officer Michael Rowan, who wishes to establish a Pagan staff association within the Met. JR and Michael were told that there was a moratorium on all new staff groups at the moment as they are funded, and a funding review was underway. One senior official in the Met was understood to be opposed to the establishment of both Pagan and LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) staff associations. After discussions, the faith and diversity unit agreed to help change the official's mind outside of the moratorium. JR said that the police have a mandate for inclusion and a lack of funding was not a good enough reason to prevent the association from being established. If it is established, the Met association can then be extended to other forces. JR said that he has two more meetings coming up and that he will report back to the group on any further developments.
Census
JR reported that he was waiting on the latest round of consultations before any further work could be done in this area. He said that Pebble partner organisations could contribute to the consultation under the Pebble banner as well as that of their own organisations. JR would report back when further input was required.
Dictionary
TT and ERO reported that they were working together on potential Druid entries for the Oxford English dictionary, and that they had drafted 160 words. TT thanked JE for sending in the witchcraft entries following the last meeting.
AOB
Fraudulent Mediums Act
Due to lack of time this would be discussed on the forum.
Complaints
JR said that he had heard some complaints from members of the Pagan community that Pebble is not representative of their views or wishes. LD suggested that in order to avoid any unnecessary unease, it was important that things discussed in person or on the forum should remain private unless express permission is given for them to be made public. BW said that Pebble representatives should make an effort to express themselves clearly and clarify whether their words are factual or merely opinion.
Cross-quarterly meetings online
JR suggested that Pebble representatives have an online meeting on the cross quarters of official meetings to discuss issues arising. ERO warned of the difficulties and potential pitfalls of non-face-to-face communication. BW suggested that the group could trial the idea by focusing on a single issue.
ACTION: AG and DC to look into the possibility of an online meeting in December, and to inform the group of any developments via the forum.
Date of Next Meeting
The next meeting will be held in London on 28 March 2009.